JEREMY: M., I agree with your distinction between random violence and strategic violence - I, too, am not opposed to the latter. But I haven't yet thought of a situation where a violent approach would be better than a non-violent approach. I've read Jensen and other eco-social-militants, but in most cases, a lot more can be accomplished without destruction of property or life.
MICHAEL: Derrick Jensen is a bit naïve when it comes to what would be required for our species to carry on after a major collapse, in my opinion - but I like his relentless attitude and tend to agree with his general analysis of "civilization".
As for destruction – or might we say ‘deconstruction’ – I think there is definitely a time and place for it. Some buildings need to go (but without harm to others), and some dams need to be destroyed, and some technic-material systems need to be dismantled. Murder is never justifiable - but the deconstruction of “property” I have no problem with (who really owns the earth anyway?).
I’ll give you a scenario: say a corporation is knowingly pumping toxic industrial chemical into a local water supply in order to cut costs, effectively contributing to the scientifically proven poisoning of an aboriginal community. And say that corporation hides behind political connections and pandering politicians avoiding legal and institutional challenges to their practices. [note: this is exactly the case with the Alberta Tar Sands] Would we be justified in jumping the fence of said factory and sabotaging or blowing-up their facilities – halting production and the subsequent generation of toxic waste? If even once child was prevented from developing cancer as a result would such ‘violence’ be justified? Or should that community continue to drink the water while non-violently holding up signs and protesting outside corporate headquarters?
When is violence better than non-violence? When there are no other options.
I think many people in the so-called West have been pacified into thinking that there actually is a “civil society” out there somewhere. We are told to keep the peace, stay calm and trust in the systems. Meanwhile bankers and corporate elites accumulate transcendent amounts of wealth, destroy every known ecosystem on the planet, collaborate with dictators and global elites to extract resources and exploit people, and continually ignore human rights and international law. “Stay calm. Stay complacent. Stay distracted. Stay controlled. Everything will be ok if you just follow the rules that we set up for you.” Fuck that! Smash stores, blow up dams, ruin factories, confront managers, occupy buildings, vandalize corporate property and tear down every other structure or method of dominance and control. Enough is enough. Our species has run out of time.
"You cannot change the past but you can make the future, and anyone who tells you different is a fucking lethargic devil." - Immortal TechniqueI cannot, truly, find any reason why not to destroy the "property" of corporations who willfully and knowingly treat people and ecologies as disposable. Why not blow-up the factories and sabotage the production systems of private organizations who deploy sweatshops or/and collaborate to murder community organizers (e.g., Shell) and commit massive human rights violations? Why should we respect their “property” when they are killing and poisoning and destroying our children spiritually and biologically? What will it take for it to be 'ok' to fight back?
“We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people." - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.JEREMY: I also warn you against the use of the term "sheeple." It's a popular term in the radical subculture (and a way of positioning oneself as "radicaler than thou" - though I realize that's not what you're doing here), but it doesn't help us reach out to "average folks" and build the collectivities that you speak of. It also obscures the fact that the decisions and actions of most of these average folks cannot be reduced to mindlessly following corporate will. People are complex and have complex relations with corporate culture - sometimes they happily follow, sometimes they grudgingly accept, sometimes they actively resist (however small those activities may seem to us).
MICHAEL: With all due respect Jeremy, I live in a place where the majority of people drive the largest vehicles they can buy, openly advocate for unrestricted gun use, argue for French-Canadians to be "deported" to France and consider “climate change” a communist plot of world domination. So despite my desire to acknowledge the complexity of the “average person’s” views, I have little faith in the capacities of under-involved consumerist citizens.
But, to be sure, I’m not talking about those people who grudgingly suffer the machinations of exploitation. Not all “average people” are sheeple – but many are. If there are those who do ‘resist’ in small ways, as you say, and feel that we live in an unhealthy social system, then why do they still flock to the shopping malls and drive SUVs? Why do more people watch American Idol than vote during an election? Why do they “grudgingly accept” or rationalize their role in this maladaptive ‘game’? Why are they NOT rising up for a better more human world?
Could they not choose otherwise?
10 comments:
Here's my response to your post.
And here is an addendum with some criteria for the use of violence.
Forgive the harsh tone of my previous comment and my post. I understand your position, and respect it. Though I'm arguing for a certain position, my own thoughts are not quite so clear.
Also, thanks for spurring me to write another blog post. I've been a bit lazy the last month.
Best,
Jeremy
No worries Jeremy, I understand where you are coming from, and I think we know enough about each other to say that our agreements far outweigh any potential differences. And I appreciate your holding your ground here because it compels me to justify my stance, and could only ever serve to help me clarify my thoughts.
I will respond with a more substantial post later tonight possibly, but for now I would just say that I think you are defending a very conventional set of moral sensibilities that might be disrupted should you consider a more expansive view of violence and affect.
Stay tuned…
Hi Michael, sorry for the clip and paste. I'm not deliberately confusing what you're trying to say. It's how my head works. I was reading Jeremy's post and jumped over here. You said:
"I have little faith in the capacities of under-involved consumerist citizens."
"Why do more people watch American Idol than vote during an election?
"Why are they NOT rising up for a better more human world?"
"Fuck that! Smash stores, blow up dams, ruin factories, confront managers, occupy buildings, vandalize corporate property and tear down every other structure or method of dominance and control. Enough is enough. Our species has run out of time."
"As a general rule I don’t smash windows or vandalize. Not that I don’t want to."
"I cannot, truly, find any reason why not to destroy the "property" of corporations who willfully and knowingly treat people and ecologies as disposable."
As a general rule, I don't smash/burn/blow things up either. Does that make us under-involved? What makes for valid involvement versus "under-involvement"? Not a rhetorical question.
On the other hand, if some in a community wanted to blow up a factory spewing toxic waste, I wouldn't mind, unless the blow up ended up creating more toxic waste than the factory. I would say the factory is perpetrating violence, poisoning people, and the people being poisoned are trying to stop it, self-defense, given that the police won't acknowledge or address the crime. If they kill the night watchman in the process, they've also committed a crime, IMO.
BUT, I don't make the rules, or determine the punishments. The government does that. Sure, I vote, but those decisions are so far removed from my vote (e.g. US supreme court) that it doesn't make much difference. Maybe people get more out of voting for American Idol?
Hello Stacie, and welcome!
Part 1 /
STACIE: As a general rule, I don't smash/burn/blow things up either. Does that make us under-involved? What makes for valid involvement versus "under-involvement"? Not a rhetorical question.
MICHAEL: Absolutely not. Resistance can take many forms (cf. Scott’s book Domination and the Arts of Resistance). And I do not want to imply that “violence” is the ONLY tactic we should use to dismantle dominant systems. What I am argiung is that violence should also not be excluded from our ‘tool-box’, especially if such a rejection is based simply on some Judeo-Christian or Kantian moral rubric. There are no good reasons, in my opinion, to simply “play nice” and the follow rules when corporate managers and financial elites violate human rights every day while brazenly shirking the laws of the land.
But to answer your question, I consider ‘valid involvement’, minimally, as: voting, getting involved in public events, educating oneself on the decisions and actions of governments (on every level), and most importantly withdrawing from those activities that perpetuate or support powerful and abusive practices, organizations and institutions. For me it is a matter of degree (stay tuned for an upcoming post in response to Jeremy) We must ask ourselves and others what are we putting our energies into? To what degree are we responsible citizens, and how?
STACIE: On the other hand, if some in a community wanted to blow up a factory spewing toxic waste, I wouldn't mind, unless the blow up ended up creating more toxic waste than the factory. I would say the factory is perpetrating violence, poisoning people, and the people being poisoned are trying to stop it, self-defense, given that the police won't acknowledge or address the crime.
MICHAEL: I totally agree. We have to look at the effects of our actions and tactics to see what may result. If deconstruction efforts are equally as damiaging then they should not be deployed. But to do nothing at all to stop the supposed violence is even worse.
Part 2 /
STACIE: If they kill the night watchman in the process, they've also committed a crime, IMO.
MICHAEL: This is where things get tricky for me. No doubt killing a night watchman is a crime as defined by law. But the question for me is, ‘was his death worth it?’. Now before readers recoil with horror, let me nuance this by saying that I do not advocate murder. In fact, as you quoted me above, I prefer not to use violence as a tactic at all. However, if the death of one night watchman prevents the death of even 10 other people, then morally, at least for me, his death is justifiable.
Moreover, he chose to work at that factory and can be held somewhat (but never totally) responsible for its activities. He could choose to work somewhere that didn't poison children. This goes back to my claims about “sheeple”. Just because Joe the night watchman isn’t calling the shots, or making huge profits, he is still gaining from that factory’s continued operations. So we can assume that either Joe fails to understand what he is participating in, or he subordinates his understanding for personal gain. Either way he’s not “engaged” or “involved” with his community in a responsible way.
We live in critical times. I firmly believe at this late stage in the civilizational game we must ALL be held accountable for our choices and lifestyle. The stakes are too high and the situation too degenerated for anything less. Neither ignorance or complacency can excuse us at this point in our species’ history.
STACIE: BUT, I don't make the rules, or determine the punishments. The government does that. Sure, I vote, but those decisions are so far removed from my vote (e.g. US supreme court) that it doesn't make much difference. Maybe people get more out of voting for American Idol?
MICHAEL: Maybe they do. Maybe the ego-satisfactions and base rewards of being addicted to television, oil, sugar, technology and drugs are central in the lives on many people. But is this a desirable or acceptable state of affairs? Should we accept such maladaptive complacency? We all live on this planet and no person or group should be left to pursue their own self-interest at the expense of so many others. It doesn’t make practical or moral sense.
Moreover, if, as you imply, people feel helpless and ineffective - disconnected from the machinations of power – then I would ask them the following questions: who do they think is responsible for making damn sure they have a voice or role in governance? Is it the government’s responsibility to make sure they obtain sufficient access to political powers and decision-influencing? Hell no. It is the individual's RESPONSIBILITY to participate and MAKE their voice be heard. If someone feels marginalized from the core of power and control, they need to get off their ass and do something about it instead of throwing up their hands in defeat and veg-ing out in from of the TV, or fulfilling some other false need through consumption and fetishness.
Acquiescence in the face of opposition is never justifiable
First of all, welcome back, Stacie, we've missed you!
Just wanted to throw in a short comment here, summarizing my position:
1) I'm not advocating a "do nothing" approach or that we should "play nice, and follow the rules." Nor am I saying that violence should be excluded from our tool-box entirely. What I am saying is exactly what you say, "We must ask ourselves and others what are we putting our energies into?"
It's not that I have some overwhelming desire to protect corporate property, it's just that I think that destroying corporate property is not the best use of our energies. Pragmatically speaking, in most cases, there are many other, much more effective strategies - strategies that will effect long term and wide spread change. Jensen calls it "leverage."
Violence is easy and simplistic. It provides a nice instant-gratification reward, but proponents often ignore the cascading repercussions that resonate out from the event and how it will affect the long-term effectiveness of our movement.
2) With regard to "sheeple," I'm just saying that it doesn't do us any good to call them names and belittle them. No matter how caught up in the system that security guard may appear, that is not all he is (besides which, maybe he doesn't have a choice - isn't this individual choice thing the same tactic Conservatives use when they want to denigrate people on welfare?). People are complex and multi-layered, and we should respect that. By calling them "sheeple," you just come off sounding like a radicaler-than-thou jerk, and you're just going to alienate most people from your cause.
The question we need to ask ourselves in any action is, what kind of world will this help to create? Empirically speaking, what kind of world did the violent actions at the G20 help to create?
See also, Adrian's recent post The chain of likes and loves
Hi Jeremy! It's nice to be back, I guess... ;) pros and cons to everything.
Being called a sheeple wouldn't offend me but, then again, not much does. Better than being a "zombie," "machine" or "naive." Used as a vague, indirect category, it's probably less alienating than when you start pointing out individual sheeple (e.g. sheeple drive SUVs and don't believe in climate change). Honestly, I'd never heard the word before and kept wishing the l an i (sheepie).
To Michael, my FIRST reaction on the security guard is to say it might not be easy to find another job, especially right now. I've been impatiently looking for a month, and my best bet is another AmeriCorps job under the poverty line for next year, back in WV. I'm psyched about the job, if I get the one I've got my heart set on (working with local foods and a pilot farm-to-school program). But... low wages SUCK.
HOWEVER, what I can't get out of my head is how similar the U.S. and many other places in the world would be minus the amenities here. Cost of living was low on the island I was working on in the Marshalls, but we didn't HAVE the possibility of air conditioning, solid multi-story houses, special grocery store foods, cable TV, cars, restaurants, toys, or whatever else people spend their money on. Some amenities I'd keep, because some actually are beneficial, especially when it comes to health, but some could go.
In WV, for example, if I wanted to cut my driving emissions, live within walking distance of people, a grocery store, library (i.e. office), and biking trail, rather than be 10-40 min. away, I'd have to pay higher rent. So I ask, what could I use as an offset? Heat can be a huge expense. Could I live without heat in a WV winter? Not just less, but none? Especially since my electricity is coming from mountaintop removal mining and/or other polluting coal mines? Maybe so, except on minus 15 days.
In other words, worst possible scenario, the security guard could find a worse paying job and adapt. He might also be compelled, as a result, to spend less money on other unnecessary consumption, but the previous money was coming at someone else's expense in the first place.
SO, I agree that he's making a choice, and is partly responsible, but I'd prefer to shut down the business (permanently, not temporarily - Jeremy had a good point about rebuilding) without killing him.
You said violence is better when there are no other options, but when do you reach the point that you KNOW there are no other options? What if you just haven't thought of them?
Michael: "Is it the government’s responsibility to make sure they obtain sufficient access to political powers and decision-influencing? Hell no. It is the individual's RESPONSIBILITY to participate and MAKE their voice be heard. If someone feels marginalized from the core of power and control, they need to get off their ass and do something about it."
On this, I'm still not sure. Ok, do something, but what? At a local level, yes, I agree, at least in the small towns that I've lived in. Local government is nearby, easily accessible and, if not "accessible," within hearing/pestering distance. Make an appointment with a county commission, and they'll be there. If not, you know where they live! ;). The national government is obscure, far away in DC. Write your congressman and you get a letter that vaguely rehashes their policy. Who has the time and money to go there and protest all the time? To get access to power at that level, and influence decisions, takes a lot more than just getting off your ass. Lobbyists do it for a career. Who has the money to hire a lobbyist? We know who, and it's not me.
4/
And what about problems at a worldwide scale, like global warming? If someone lives, say, on an outer island in the Marshall Islands, no internet, no phones, infrequent planes and boats, but is pissed at the idea that global warming could make their home disappear off the map, how would they even get access? Convince your senator to encourage your own government to put the pressure on other governments? Then have them (try) and lobby other governments on your behalf, governments that don't really listen anyway because you're a tiny pacific island nation. Access at those levels isn't easy.
That's why I'm drawn to small-scale local projects. BUT, not everything is a local issue, or controllable through my monthly budget, or my job choices. I like Jeremy's phrase "tool box." If I do feel the need to get off my (poor, frozen) ass this winter, what other tools are out there?
You mentioned sit-ins and innovative artistic statements, as well as "tactical dismantling efforts to tear down the machinery of exploitation, dominance and plunder." I guess that's a start, but "how to dismantle" is the real question.
Stacie,
I think the term "sheeple" may be less offensive as a general category than as a specific derogatory term, but it's still derogatory and still dehumanizes the people it refers to - isn't this one of the things that we're trying to get away from?
What purpose does it serve? Practically speaking, it serves as an insider term to solidify one's identity as a radical - to project a category of other that one can be opposed to. Go talking to ordinary folks about "sheeple" - even as a general category - and they'll just think you're an arrogant jerk. In some ways it also allows the supporters of violence to casually disregard the lives they put in danger (i.e. the security guard) since they're only sheeple - no longer properly human.
Also with regard to the security guard, I think that the suggestion that the s/he has a choice ignores potential systemic reasons why s/he might be working that particular job at that particular time - or better, it ignores ways that his/her life is entangled with that facility and the capitalist system. These knots are not so easily untied by simply blowing up or even sabotaging the facility. Why doesn't the community itself - if it's being poisoned by the facility, if it recognizes the cause and if it's members are genuinely upset about it - blow up or disable the facilty? I would venture to bet that a lot of their lives are entangled with it as well. Maybe it provides good paying jobs with good benefits that they need to support their families. Maybe it provides indirect economic benefits that the community as a whole depends upon. Can you justifiably take that away from them with one swift blow? How do you think they'll feel about it?
My point is that violence tends to reduce these complex situations to simple, "blow it up and everything will be solved." Maybe there are situations where violence is useful - simple situations where one person or group is physically dominating another - the Warsaw Ghetto uprising comes to mind. But most situations are far more complex, and require far subtler techniques - a full tool box as it were.
Eventually, that facility will have to be shut down, of that I have no doubt. But in a way that disentangles the community from it and provides other options, and in a way that nobody will get hurt. That's something that the instant gratification of violence can never truly promise. Additionally, like it or not, violence alienates the vast majority of the population from our cause. If part of the goal is to win public opinion (and, like it or not, that is part of the goal - will have to be if we're going to really make a difference) then violence generally takes us one step forward and two steps back. Unless we can get public opinion behind it, which we probably won't as long as they control the media and can put whatever spin they like on it.
Again, I'm not opposed to violence entirely. I just think that, in our cause, it's a generally weak tactic.
All good points. Instead of blowing up the company, it'd be ideal to have (affordable!)alternative energies that cut the feet out from under oil companies. Same old problem.
"Go talking to ordinary folks about "sheeple" - even as a general category - and they'll just think you're an arrogant jerk."
Either that or a paranoid nutcase, if it's spoken. Just envision someone walking up to you on the street and ranting of sheeple.
Post a Comment